Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque

[syron]

Even if the most respected scientists in this and other universes claimed it to be real, it wouldn't change my own view about it being a hoax.

So no offense Phil, but just because you're writing about it doesn't make it more real to me. 15 or 15 000 000 papers makes no difference.

But let's not go into detail about that. Tons can be read on other places about this. From both sides. I respect and understand that people believe in it. And you should do the same.

No, but it means I have a lot more insight than "normal" people that easily get impressed by "so called" dissertations by "so called" scientists, even though what those are writing is in most cases complete nonsense.

Climate change isn't about "getting burned alive because it gets too hot one day", it's about global problems such as the emigration and consequently imigration of thousands of dutch people because they're loosing huge parts of their country to the sea, which is due to the constant rising of the sea level, caused by melting polar ice caps, anon caused by increasing temperatures, anon caused by the greenhouse effect, anon caused by too much air pollution.

So, go on, lie to my face and tell me you EVER had thoughts that far-reaching . Really, this is such a complex theme, you can't discuss about it unless you've read at least one 500 pages book about it (Ofc written by someone respectable)

And now b2t it's all said anyway

[Aberration]

the emigration and consequently imigration of thousands of dutch people because they're loosing huge parts of their country to the sea, which is due to the constant rising of the sea level, caused by melting polar ice caps, anon caused by increasing temperatures, anon caused by the greenhouse effect, anon caused by too much air pollution.

that's the basic story and not far reaching. and no, it still isn't proven that the climate get's warmer and that the antarctic is melting and the north pole wouldn't even cause a rising of the sea level if it melted, only the south pole. and even if it got warmer it wasn't by the co2 but by sun activities. and even if it was by co2 what isn't the case the minimal co2 that humans produce compared to nature, vulcans, burning underground cole etc wouldn't cause it.

but what is proven is that co2 is absolutely not a poison but a essential elixir of life that makes all plants grow faster. if we could really increasy the co2 level to former values this was actually a VERY good thing and wouldn't warm the earth since it is NO greenhouse. btw the Alps were free of ice in the last 6000 years many times and around 1400 AD the Vikings lived in Greenland that was free of ice.
and of course u get much stuff that "proofs" the human made climate change since the IPCC always had the job to "proof" that it's human made and not to find out what really causes it. if so many scientists try to proof that what they say looks logical for "normal" people of course. and if you read 500(000) book pages of those "respectable" scientists you get one sided "information" for sure but to make it real "insight" you should also read 500 book pages of scientist that claim that there is no human made climate change. and yes, there are real scientist (Prof.Dr.) that think so. they are quite much actually but they may not work for the IPCC anymore. guess why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsaPB...h_response_rev

btw I'm not trying to convince you and I respect your opinion. I just wanted to show that not all people who say human made climate change is a hoax are noobs and pseudo scientists we can stop this now since we both said our opinions

[syron]

that's the basic story and not far reaching. and no, it still isn't proven that the climate get's warmer and that the antarctic is melting and the north pole wouldn't even cause a rising of the sea level if it melted, only the south pole. and even if it got warmer it wasn't by the co2 but by sun activities. and even if it was by co2 what isn't the case the minimal co2 that humans produce compared to nature, vulcans, burning underground cole etc wouldn't cause it.

but what is proven is that co2 is absolutely not a poison but a essential elixir of life that makes all plants grow faster. if we could really increasy the co2 level to former values this was actually a VERY good thing and wouldn't warm the earth since it is NO greenhouse. btw the Alps were free of ice in the last 6000 years many times and around 1400 AD the Vikings lived in Greenland that was free of ice.
and of course u get much stuff that "proofs" the human made climate change since the IPCC always had the job to "proof" that it's human made and not to find out what really causes it. if so many scientists try to proof that what they say looks logical for "normal" people of course. and if you read 500(000) book pages of those "respectable" scientists you get one sided "information" for sure but to make it real "insight" you should also read 500 book pages of scientist that claim that there is no human made climate change. and yes, there are real scientist (Prof.Dr.) that think so. they are quite much actually but they may not work for the IPCC anymore. guess why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsaPB...h_response_rev

btw I'm not trying to convince you and I respect your opinion. I just wanted to show that not all people who say human made climate change is a hoax are noobs and pseudo scientists we can stop this now since we both said our opinions

Well, air pollution was just an example, methane caused by livestock raising is way worse than carbon dioxide. And it's not the sun getting hotter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

[Aberration]

yes, methan but.. the earth is dropping out much methan anyway. and I meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_activity but IPCC says that it has a minor effect to the climate warming...

[Petter]

Whenever a scientist made a REAL breakthrough in a area, was when he was experimenting and thinking "outside the box". Which, of course, means that he ignored the education he got, that said he must obey the authority on the matter, and he doesn't have to read and agree with this or that respected guys work on the matter to make break throughs. But he has to, if he wants to pass his exams and graduate.

In short, screw the mainstream opinion and the world leading scientists. That's why we know the earth is a sphear, and 1000's of other things that the "so called" (to use your frasing) scientists came up with.

Just to name a recent thing, these "so called" scientists have been trying to inform the planet about fat since at least 1950's. The fact that eating fat makes you loose weight very rapidly (if done right) has since some time reached out too much and can't be hiden any longer, and already book after book about this gets written.

(I will guesse now, but it's probably true as it is in so many other cases) - who writes these books? Who will get credit for it? Probably the "respected scientists". In school books 50 years from now their names will be there.

---------- Post added 01.09.2010 at 22:21 ----------

Phil, sry I'm not trying to invalidate you, what you believe in or doing in any way what so ever. I just realized it came out that way. These are just my opinions and thoughts. Obviously your opinios and thoughts are worth just as much as mine.

[syron]

Whenever a scientist made a REAL breakthrough in a area, was when he was experimenting and thinking "outside the box". Which, of course, means that he ignored the education he got, that said he must obey the authority on the matter, and he doesn't have to read and agree with this or that respected guys work on the matter to make break throughs. But he has to, if he wants to pass his exams and graduate.

In short, screw the mainstream opinion and the world leading scientists. That's why we know the earth is a sphear, and 1000's of other things that the "so called" (to use your frasing) scientists came up with.

Just to name a recent thing, these "so called" scientists have been trying to inform the planet about fat since at least 1950's. The fact that eating fat makes you loose weight very rapidly (if done right) has since some time reached out too much and can't be hiden any longer, and already book after book about this gets written.

(I will guesse now, but it's probably true as it is in so many other cases) - who writes these books? Who will get credit for it? Probably the "respected scientists". In school books 50 years from now their names will be there.

---------- Post added 01.09.2010 at 22:21 ----------

Phil, sry I'm not trying to invalidate you, what you believe in or doing in any way what so ever. I just realized it came out that way. These are just my opinions and thoughts. Obviously your opinios and thoughts are worth just as much as mine.

Well, I also respect you guys opinions but to put an end to this: Ofcourse, climate change has always existed, but the anthropogenic (man-made) influences have never been that high throughout history. There are no comparative values, since the era of homo sapiens (especially the industrial era that started a little over 100 years ago) is a very short period measured in earth / universal terms. But look outside your window and tell me that this kind of lifestyle won't / doesn't do any harm to the earth, and we're back at the greenhouse effect which can be scientifically quantified.

[Dr. Dre]

Well global warming looks like one of the many attempts at a new form of religion. It's now turned out to be a massive hysteria gathering :

- on one side uneducated people who'd rather believe any clown than actually doing thorough research

Example : Last year on a french talk show, a well-known and respectable journalist informed the audience that he had come upon a rather intriguing british article discussing actual influences of man-made emissions on climate change illustrated by several examples and comparisons between periods in time where Earth was a lot less populated. The journalist did nothing but quote the paper, he didn't express an opinion, he just listed facts, which didn't prevent him from being attacked by a 20-year old school drop-out slash occasional singer who writes dumb songs to make girls wet. The dumbass said "let's just not talk about these things, for once we can all gather around a just cause, let's not spoil it with useless debates, everyone knows global warming is a known fact"

So you see, a) he was too dumb to understand the real question (man-caused or not), and b) he advised 5 million people on national TV to follow and not do research, that's proselytizing.

- and on the other unscrupulous politicians who are more than happy to exploit this in order to get a few more votes. I mean young people can probably not see it, but I'm sure you Niklas, if you've followed politics closely in your country, you must have witnessed sudden 180° turns from politicians who never ever cared about environment before.. it's funny.

I don't really now what to think on the matter as I don't find it interesting enough to dive into books but one thing I know for sure, I would never vote for an eco-socialist candidate as the whole idea of using a lot of money, cause we're talking billions here to deal now with problems that will likely be responsible for killing millions of people later when there are already millions of people dying everyday is ridiculous to me.

Not to mention of course that I'm french and our candidates are complete lunatics who shout, insult and fight (not joking) with unrealistic programs that would make our economy plummet and who always refuse to admit that as long as chinese and americans don't take drastic measures, we french frogs can have as many showers as we want.

[Aberration]

yes, our politicians are all liars also. and their conclusion is that we should make higher penalties for farting cows

[Petter]

billions here to deal now with problems that will likely be responsible for killing millions of people later when there are already millions of people dying everyday is ridiculous to me.

N1

Ask yourself the question about this, and tons of other cases where you are not sure about something, "Who benefits, and who gets the shorter end of the stick?".

No matter what you're looking for, in my case about doctors and scientists making the population afraid of eating fat saying it makes you fat, the flue shots, all the wars, making it illegal in the us to have an opinion about the 9 11 war in Iraq murdering slaughtering innocent men women and children (just think a sec about that last one, illegal??) or the huge ammount of reports (the real knowledge has been around all the time) about the dangers of fluoride, aspartame, fosfor acid (the one used in coca cola and other softdrinks) etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

You will always find that the one who benefits is the same.

Isn't it funny that about 10 000 natural helth products have become illegal, products that never hurt anyone, even less killed anyone. In short nice explained by X here. No no.. instead we get azt for curing cancer and to make HIV patients live longer, 3 billion pills for every ache you have or every mood your in. And the respected scientists said "this is right, this is safe there's tons of evidence about this", we learn it from school, we read it in book so of course it MUST be the right thing and it must be true. Anyone brave enough thinking differently is an idiot! Why are those scientists the respected ones and not the ones saying the opposite?

Why is the planet producing left brain thinkers through our education systems and media who say hö conspiracy nut höhö, whose abillity to do real critical thinking is practically non existent. But calling someone who thinks differently a nut will be done instantly. Who the fcuk benefits

[Aberration]

well said Petter I see you use both parts of your brain

"cui bono" is indeed the question that you have to make.

the other thing that one has to understand is this:

to rule a people you just have to find a threat, no matter if real or not.

the people react and wanna have a solution for this threat(terrorism). and voila you have the solution:

deleting of freedoms and privacy for gaining "safety". this way you don't have to force them to delete their freedom, they will beg you to do it!

if you know this easy rule, every "terrorist act" + the climategate + the so called energy crisis make sense suddenly.

[-L/u/K/3-]

Interesting topic, but i believe we are all being controlled by an elite ultra rich group called illuminati,
they are the worlds richest and least heard of but some heard of are the rockafellas and the rothschild

They own and control most of the media (what we see and hear) as well as a lot of other shit man, subliminal messages etc...

They are "yes xfighter" trying to make less healthy foods with taste engineered to be slightly addictive (mc donalds etc..) to make us weaker

They are free masons - a cult, and they are so clever in what they are doing 90% of u on here will say LuK3 = insane, bullshit, idiot etc...so as u can see they are pwning - i mean why would u know about it? why would u believe it when its not on the media that THEY conrol? but I done enough research from many different sources and i believe its quite possible. The usa president is just their "puppet", knowing that blacks are rising big now they made a black guy to control with more accuracy . they want a ONE world order controlling us like sheep/cattle...

[Aberration]

I won't call you insane for that. it's at least much more likely than the bullshit they tell you on tv.

of course most people will laugh about you saying this but why? imo it's more dumb to believe that America is threatened by Osama Bin Laden.

[-L/u/K/3-]

I won't call you insane for that. it's at least much more likely than the bullshit they tell you on tv.

of course most people will laugh about you saying this but why? imo it's more dumb to believe that America is threatened by Osama Bin Laden.

exactly, they want u to call me insane, and it works most of the time... in this life "Impossible Is Nothing" , "Expect The Unexpected"

America set up the whole thing for an excuse to invade the east for oil so that they seem the good guys...btw, american government invented aids it wasnt existing before the 20th century

[Gods Hand]

luke for president...also pschh

[Skwizgar]

i think this is all just well planed by US gov.
after 9/11 americans hated muslims and US gov attacked afganistan in the name of peace and to destroy terrorism but ther real plan was diffrent, im not sure what it was so i can only think of taking there resource coz media are not showing all the things so we dont know.
now they said that they have plans to build mosque.
coz the terrorist heat the9/11, iraq and all of it calmed down a bit so they need to keep the hate for muslims stiull going.
i can bet that soon u will hear news about some muslims planted a bomb in NY or robbery by them.
after that ppl will hate them eaven more and news will be telling that thouse ppl where from Irans terrorist camps,perfect explenation to invade another country in the name of PEACE

WHILE it is MOST LIKELY true that 9/11 was a government set-up, i oppose the Mosque at ground zero. Islam only spreads hate, inequality and bigotry. i wont put my civil rights on the line for people who dont even believe in civil rights. Dont build the mosque IMO, and tear down every christian, catholic, Zoinist and hebrew temple in america...get rid of all the stupid brainwashed religious people.