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  1. #1
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    Pro Wireless vs Viper Ultimate

    In my mind, the next gen gaming shall be done on wireless hardware, especially the mouse with brands like Logitech and Razer bringing on awesome product such as their Pro Wireless and the Viper Ultimate, two products meant to take a different approach of what a game changer should be among those super light openwork mouses.

    It all began with the Logitech G703 released in 2017, wireless already existed many years ago with products such as the first Razer Mamba or the Microsoft Sidewinder X8 but these have never been successful for many reasons: first these were expensive as fuck, it was as heavy as a brick (sometimes about 200g which is friggin huge for a mouse), the weight was unbalanced on the rear which was a bother for the low dpi players that lifts a lot, the battery lasted less than a day but more of all the wireless technology and sensor tracking was perfectible and not reliable.

    Then the G703 arrived and proposed for the first time a wireless technology that was as fast - sometimes better depending the mouse than wired. But that's not all, Logitech managed to almost fix all the defaults the wireless had, which shows all the progress done on research through all the years: battery life has been extended, weight has been reduced a lot, sensors are top grade and even the price got lower than the previous heights.

    During a year the other brands were unable to make a concurrent to the G703, then Logitech brought the G Pro Wireless to burry all of them even more: Not only the first mouse ever to weight below 100g, it was only 80g! and that with a battery said to last over 60 hours, a technical prowess that was never seen before on wireless mouses. But as if it wasn't enough, the weight is balanced, the design is ambidextrous, the battery charges in just a hour, the side buttons are modulable and you can add additional weight... an absolute dream for any exigent FPS gamer.

    Logitech had no concurrence for another year.

    And finally one of the other major brands woke up: Razer brought the Viper Ultimate and it was the first time we saw a 100% reliable wireless technology elsewhere than at Logitech. The design is similar but it's even lighter than the Pro Wireless with only 74g and has a few other differences like rubber grips, laser click buttons etc... nowdays Logitech and Razer are the two only brands featuring that kind of product in their catalogue, none else followed. Some prefers to keep investing in wired mouses because it still sells a lot and costs less money in research and developpement, some others set the bets on the openwork mouses.

    I personally do own both of these mouses and played enough with these to offer a proper comparison:

    VS

    Pro Wireless Viper Ultimate
    Sensor Hero (optical) Focus+ (optical)
    DPI 16 000 20 000
    Weight 80g 74g
    Shape Ambidextrous Ambidextrous
    Battery life up to 60 hours up to 70 hours
    Lights RGB RGB
    Grip type Matt plastic Rubber grip
    Balance Centered Centered
    Additional weight Yes (10g) No
    Amovible side buttons Yes No
    Charging dock No Yes
    Compatible induction Yes Yes
    Launch price 150€ 170€



    Enough about technical talking, here's my tests:


    Logitech Pro Wireless

    This is simply the first mouse ever to receive 5 stars from me, playing with this mouse made me feel for the first time that I had the maximum control on my aim abilities, the freedom of no longer having the cable, being able to move with no compromise, it's something you will never feel with anything else but true wireless.

    Pros & Cons:


    (+) Perfect ergonomy
    (+) Light weight
    (+) Great sensor and wireless
    (+) Amazing battery life that even lasted a whole week for me
    (+) Excellent control thanks to the ambidextrous design
    (+) Amovible side buttons which is important for me
    (+) Price decreased and is affordable at a reasonable price


    (-) Fragile, I broke the scroller in my bag once coming back from a LAN CS:GO tourney and had to get it exchanged
    (-) Additional weight is in my mind completely useless, people buying that product will never be looking to add weight, not mentioning that disbalances the mouse
    (-) No charging dock
    (-) RGB lights doesn't match each other with the Pro keyboard if you use the same color code in the G HUB (driver)
    (-) Messes up at 240Hz refresh rates


    Razer Viper Ultimate

    No surprise this is the second mouse to get 5 stars from me because that's basically a copy of the Pro Wireless that does everything slightly better, with a few exceptions... see below.

    Pros & Cons:


    (+) Perfect ergonomy
    (+) Light weight (lighter than Pro)
    (+) Great sensor and wireless
    (+) Excellent control thanks to the ambidextrous design
    (+) Robust design, something we don't usually see at Razer
    (+) Rubber grips, doesn't bother me but people may like rubber better than raw plastics
    (+) Useful and small (discrete) charging dock in which you can plug the USB receptor


    (-) No amovible side buttons and god I hate having buttons on right side (which is why I got rid of my Zowie ZA12)
    (-) Charging dock is messing up a bit as if you don't push the mouse a little bit forward after plugging it to the dock, it won't recharge the mouse
    (-) 70h of battery life is a pure lie, my Viper barely lasts 3 days whereas my Pro lasted one week straight.
    (-) Too expensive, usual Razer


    In conclusion: Even when you think you found the perfection, it appears different when you have a closer look. Both those mouses have their defaults, yet they are a considerable step forward in terms of gaming mouse. I believe their excessive price is the reason they got popular only among the serious FPS players, but the wireless is really taking over the trend with other models I will compare below a bit later. The Viper Ultimate is my new main, paired with a Gigantus.



    Razer and Logitech races to the most advanced gaming mouses and both their flagships (Viper and Pro) resulted in a few other mouses that inherited of their respective wireless technologies, and the best of it is that they are accessible at much lower price than those I mentioned above:

    Logitech G502 Lightspeed & Razer Basilisk Ultimate



    Logitech G703 Lightspeed & Razer Mamba Wireless
    Last edited by Skyward; 10.01.2020 at 19:43.

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  2. #2
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    I'm really impressed that you invest your time to make such detailed reviews on forums with 10 active members and even less interested in hardware/peripherals . However it's really helpful for me, because i'm actually planning to switch to wireless setup (currently using G213 + G403). My next mouse propably will be Logitech PRO, because i've been using their peripherals since... always and they are truly on top right now.

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    Dear Skyward! Thank you for interesting overeview.
    I will add a few comments. I slightly disagree with the assessment of the ambidextrous design. Of course, this is profitably for the manufacturer, in this way it covers the entire market with one model, including left-handers. This is relatively comfortable for left-handers who have too little choice of devices. But I'm not a manufacturer, and I'm not left-hander, and my hand is not symmetrical, and my thumb is not like my little finger . I also tried a variety of mice models. All models with the most comfortable grip were asymmetrical . And I completely agree with You, the buttons on the right side of the mice are almost Universal evil!
    Of course, I am happy about the progress of wireless mouse technology. However, I believe that wireless mice are the choice of those who need to be mobile. I am sure that all claims to the inconvenience of the mice wire are overly exaggerated. Yes, mice wire should not be too hard. Yes, mice wire needs to be properly secured. But how difficult is it? I think it's very easy. And so, for a desktop computer, a wired mice remains the best choice.

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    It didn't take me more than 8 minuts to write all of this lol, 10 minuts counting the image uploads, I was just bored so I did something to cross the time

    Quote Originally Posted by Privateer View Post
    My next mouse propably will be Logitech PRO
    i'm selling mine 60 bucks + shipping if you're interested, it's almost new


    Quote Originally Posted by AlexHF View Post
    Dear Skyward! Thank you for interesting overeview.
    I will add a few comments. I slightly disagree with the assessment of the ambidextrous design. Of course, this is profitably for the manufacturer, in this way it covers the entire market with one model, including left-handers. This is relatively comfortable for left-handers who have too little choice of devices. But I'm not a manufacturer, and I'm not left-hander, and my hand is not symmetrical, and my thumb is not like my little finger . I also tried a variety of mice models. All models with the most comfortable grip were asymmetrical .
    The thing I didn't mention is that I don't have the usual 2 fingers grip everyone has, I got my mid finger constantly on the scroller and use it to jump while my other fingers remains on the left and right clicks. Ambidextrous design suits my particular grip better than the death adders i've been using for a decade for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexHF View Post
    And I completely agree with You, the buttons on the right side of the mice are almost Universal evil!
    What makes the Viper bearable is that Razer was smart enough to make these buttons super thin, some people may dislike the accessibility of the buttons but for me it's just perfect because it doesn't bother me, unlike on the Zowie ZA12 I had.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexHF View Post
    However, I believe that wireless mice are the choice of those who need to be mobile.
    Wrong, transporting a classic wired mouse makes none more difficult than a wireless, in both cases the mouse is in a bag, sometimes dedicated package. Those who are truely mobile are not gamers for most of them and wouldn't carry more than a 12€ small mouse.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexHF View Post
    I am sure that all claims to the inconvenience of the mice wire are overly exaggerated.
    Trust me, it is not. Play 400dpi with a rather low sens, do some awp flickshotting in CS:GO or railgun flickshotting in Quake and tell me how does it feel to have that cable flying in every ways possible. How does it feel to not having the confidence to move your arm all the way you want to move it because you know the cable will block you. Man that's terrible. I know some people may be absolutely not be bothered by it and i'm happy for them, but in my case that's an issue that I started to notice very early in my Serious Sam times, it has always been a hassle for me. Wireless feels like getting freed from being held back and my aim has never been as good as it is since i've gone wireless.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexHF View Post
    And so, for a desktop computer, a wired mice remains the best choice.
    I can't deny that, at least in terms of price / performance. I could almost play equally as good with a 30€ Rival 110 (greatest choice for cheap category) as with my Viper, even though I can't stand playing with a cable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    The thing I didn't mention is that I don't have the usual 2 fingers grip everyone has, I got my mid finger constantly on the scroller and use it to jump while my other fingers remains on the left and right clicks. Ambidextrous design suits my particular grip better than the death adders i've been using for a decade for example.
    I tried using your grip. I still thought that the asymmetrical shape of micee is more convenient. But this is probably due to individual characteristics. We are all different people, we have different habits, we have different hand. Therefore, long live diversity!


    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    What makes the Viper bearable is that Razer was smart enough to make these buttons super thin, some people may dislike the accessibility of the buttons but for me it's just perfect because it doesn't bother me, unlike on the Zowie ZA12 I had.

    And here again our individual differences come into play. I hold mice with three fingers. So any buttons are hindrance to me if they are located on the right side of mice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    Trust me, it is not. Play 400dpi with a rather low sens, do some awp flickshotting in CS:GO or railgun flickshotting in Quake and tell me how does it feel to have that cable flying in every ways possible. How does it feel to not having the confidence to move your arm all the way you want to move it because you know the cable will block you. Man that's terrible. I know some people may be absolutely not be bothered by it and i'm happy for them, but in my case that's an issue that I started to notice very early in my Serious Sam times, it has always been a hassle for me. Wireless feels like getting freed from being held back and my aim has never been as good as it is since i've gone wireless.

    I forgot about that. We have previously discussed our differences and features when using gaming mice. The mouse wire should present a serious inconvenience with a large range of hand movements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyward View Post
    I can't deny that, at least in terms of price / performance. I could almost play equally as good with a 30€ Rival 110 (greatest choice for cheap category) as with my Viper, even though I can't stand playing with a cable.
    Your choice is clear from the point of view of the above. However, for me the best choice would be even less expensive Cougar Revenger S and Minos X5, very convenient for me personally, equipped with an excellent sensor PixArt PMW3360, polling rate 2000Hz, Omron Gaming Switches (50 Million Clicks), maximum tracking speed 250 IPS, maximum acceleration 50 G and weighing 94g and 88g respectively. That is, in terms of technical characteristics, they are slightly inferior only in weight (87.5 g for Rival 110), and superior to Rival 110 in all other respects. These mices are equipped with reserve legs. However, I should warn you that Revenger S is not liked by many people with the so-called palm grip. And for such people, Minos X5 is even less suitable. But these mice are well suited for people with a finger or so-called claw grip.
    Also, I would highly recommend another inexpensive gaming mice. This Is A4Tech Bloody P30 Pro. This device is equipped with a high-end sensor PixArt PMW 3389 with resolution of 16,000 CPI, маximum acceleration 50g, tracking speed of 400 IPS. This mice is equipped with metal legs with an incredible resource of 300 kilometers. The resource of switch is 20 million clicks.
    However, I want to return to the topic of wireless mice. There is a very interesting relatively wireless kit. This Is The Razer Mamba + Firefly Hyperflux Bundle (https://www.razer.com/gaming-mice/razer-mamba-hyperflux). Wireless and accumulator-free mouse with exelent performance + wired pad with wireless power transfer technology. However, this set is not suitable for you. Size of mousepad is too small for You, only 255 x 355 mm. But for players who are used higher sensitivity of gaming mice, this set can be a very good choice. If the price doesn't scare them. In Russia it is about 250 €

  6. #6
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    yeah I think those induction mousepads are overly expensive, although being very interesting. But you're right that doesn't suit me because it's too small but also because I dislike hard surfaces, classic fabric/microfibre offers a much better control imo. None from pro players uses a hard surface anyway, there must be a good reason to that.

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    i just got the wired viper 69g as i got rid of my heavy deathadder


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    my viper arrived today - LIGHTWEIGHT!
    ive paid 59€ - brandnew product

    it is a little too small for my hands but i try to get used for it as i dont like the pricing of the deathadder V2
    so for i like it!


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    Quote Originally Posted by AmcoTraD View Post
    my viper arrived today - LIGHTWEIGHT!
    ive paid 59€ - brandnew product

    it is a little too small for my hands but i try to get used for it as i dont like the pricing of the deathadder V2
    so for i like it!
    DA's price will drop at 60 bucks in a couple months anyway, but Viper is definitely a top choice for FPS.

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    What keyboard would you recommend to go with the Viper?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Privateer View Post
    What keyboard would you recommend to go with the Viper?
    Most of keyboards are pretty great nowdays, but if you want one from Razer to fit in the Synapse driver, i'd say a Blackwidow V2 or Huntsman (TKL versions if you play low sens FPS).

    Preferably Yellow (linear stealth) or Orange (tactile stealth), green switches are crap and unessessarily noisy as fuck. I use Yellow nowdays but I loved the tactile feeling of my G Pro's Romer G switches which gave a good typing feeling while remaining very stealth.

    Huntsman uses other colors I think it's purple for clicky noisy and red for linear and silent

    noisy switches in 2020

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    I couldn't convince myself to go for mechanical keyboard over membrane i've been using my whole life because of the clicking noise. man it irritates me so much, even if it's more comfortable and durable than membranes

    My friend had Razer Ornata which was advertised as "mecha-membrane" and it still was loud as fuck

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    Quote Originally Posted by Privateer View Post
    I couldn't convince myself to go for mechanical keyboard over membrane i've been using my whole life because of the clicking noise. man it irritates me so much, even if it's more comfortable and durable than membranes

    My friend had Razer Ornata which was advertised as "mecha-membrane" and it still was loud as fuck
    Guess I am not alone) And I am not sure about durability - I have this membrane MICROSOFT Wired 400 keyboard more than 5 years bruh and it is really comfortable, unlike other membrane keyboards I have seen where I can barely press the buttons.... For me, I don't see buying from these mechanical RGB keyboards as anything other than for looks)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Privateer View Post
    I couldn't convince myself to go for mechanical keyboard over membrane i've been using my whole life because of the clicking noise. man it irritates me so much, even if it's more comfortable and durable than membranes

    My friend had Razer Ornata which was advertised as "mecha-membrane" and it still was loud as fuck
    the Ornata is a hybrid, the switches are mechanical and the contacts are membrane

    the difference between them should be clear, a membrane contact is basically not a directly electrical or mechanical contact but via inductivity or capacity of two foils that cover metal, so that means you have a little component circuit that provides and converts these signals und thus get a minimal delay like 50ms or so.. i dont know the exact numbers it might depend on certain manufacturers
    but i am sure it is hardly noticeable anyway
    maybe those mechanical switches deliver a difference of 40 ms

    ofcourse you can manufacture a membrane keyboard for 0,50$ as there is just plastic foils with a little metal inside - a keyboard with mecha contacts will be much more expensive
    in the end it matters that your gaming setup has the least possible delay

    your sight to brain -> 100+ ms
    reaction time -> 60+ ms
    Monitor 2 ms
    ping 5ms
    mouse 50 ms
    keyboard 50 ms

    so you have around 260 ms of a total delay anyway if you sum all together, the difference of 40 ms would be too marginal for casual gamers anyway but can give you a great advantage in esport if you compete against some1 with a weaker setup

    the clicking sounds have nothing to do with the mechanical function itself, its is rather a feedback for your senses


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    I honestly don't find linear or stealth tactile switches that noisy, imo these are not noisier than membrane. what makes noise is the plastic of the key touching the plastic of the switch every time you press the key, but that's basically the same for membrane keyboards, just a bit less noisy probably but you can use rubber rings on the mecha switches to reduce the noise. You should try to find a retailer near your location (@Privateer) that let you try those keyboards, MX Red, Black, Brown, Razer Yellow, Orange, Logitech Romer G and Roccat Titan.

    MX Blue and Razer Green are those very noisy switches that gave the mechanical keyboards their reputation of being very noisy, which is not always true.

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